Everybody Loves Linas, Apparently

by Tom Ziller on Feb 15, 2008 1:05 PM PST in Free Agency/Trades

I'd always thought Linas Kleiza was an acquired taste. I enjoyed his Missouri work, and David Thorpe had told me good things about him. And, err, he has had some, um, decent performances against the Kings. But Travis Heath of HOOPSWORLD goes further than anyone in his esteem of the estimable Kleiza.

Make no mistake about it, though, if the Nuggets trade Kleiza for Artest or anyone else, they darned sure better win it all. Otherwise, the deal may very well come back to bite them in the future.

Kleiza has gotten better every season he's been in the league, and he's still just 23 years of age. He can score inside and out, and he possess an almost perfect mix of confidence and toughness. Perhaps most important from Denver's perspective, he understands how to thrive on the floor with other superstars.

Via Sam Amick, who thinks Kleiza would be the key in any Ron Artest to Denver deal. Watch me waver, but I think I might prefer Kleiza and Eduoardo Najera (and hopefully a pick, even future) for Ron-Ron than the bigger deal including Nene and Kenny Thomas.

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Agreed

While I would love to send K9 away, I think it is more important we get a quality player in return for Artest, than just a pure salary dump. Its not like K9's contract cripples the Kings, its just wasted money.

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Feb 15, 2008 1:11 PM PST reply actions

It's not just K9's deal, but we are

actually pretty crippled - dangerously close to the tax threshold - when Kmart's extension kicks in this summer.

I just hope we do something to address our many issues/shortcomings in the next 6 days.

by Kfan in Korea on Feb 15, 2008 1:18 PM PST up reply actions

log-jam at the 3?

I love Kleiza's game... but does this create a logjam on the wing? Can he play a small 4 position?

by misterbrister on Feb 15, 2008 1:18 PM PST reply actions

if we give up a wing to get a wing

how are we creating a logjam? Remember, Theus was willing to play Salmons at the 4 early in the season. Also, I am not positive, but I do remember reading that he can play the small 4 (Truehoop, maybe, I linked to it when the point was first brought up).

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Feb 15, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions

Some tingz

This is based on Tim Kawakami's post that Amick linked to in his blog.

That means, at the moment, the Warriors CANNOT GET ARTEST for the fun-filled package of Mickael Pietrus and Patrick O'Bryant. Sorry.

The Kings aren't doing this for several reasons. A) talent and B) it doesn't work under the salary cap either.

If it's just Pietrus and O'Bryant, sure, maybe I'd understand some of this. But that's not the package the Kings would entertain.

Why would the Kings give up Artest for two players they can get for free in the off-season, and that's assuming the Kings want either one of them? They wouldn't do that, I'd guess.

Bingo. Why else would anything less than O'Bryant, Pietrus AND Brandan Wright be part of the package? Makes no sense to me.

-Ensuring luxury-tax penalties, assuming they re-sign any or all of the Monta Ellis/Andris Biedrins/Matt Barnes, possibly Baron Davis F/A class this summer;

Duh they'll incur luxury tax if they take on Kenny Thomas with the trade exception.

-Clogging up what has been a very clean salary structure needless for the next two years;
-And there's no way Artest would lead to a title.
Therefore: Adding him would be dumb in this scenario.

Actually you can thank Rod Higgins & Michael Jordan for cleaning up the cap. They're the one's dumb enough to take Jason Richarson off the Warriors for no salary in return to begin with.

I know Artest is a much, much, much, much better player right now than Webber and Artest is tough and could possibly defend some of the guys who give the Warriors trouble.

But he's not a power forward. He's a small forward. That's Stephen Jackson's position. And SJax ain't sitting down for any long period in my world, period.

Actually Artest is a 4. That's one of his many redeeming qualities. His un-redeeming qualities include mental insanity and an affinity to jump shots from 20+ feet away from the hoop.

So Artest plays power forward? He'd have to. (If he plays small forward, that bumps SJax to two-guard... so you're sitting Ellis? NO CHANCE. The Warriors are crazy but not that crazy.)

Yes Artest can play PF. Or else why acquire him?

In short Kawakami's article is there to argue the point that A) Artest can't play PF which he can, and B) there isn't a financial reason to take him on when it costs them Thomas and more than O'Bryant/Pietrus. I get it Tim. You just didn't have to muddle your points with half truth's and pointless arguments.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2008 1:28 PM PST reply actions

As far as Artest for Kleiza/Najera

That would have to include a 1st rounder to satisfy me.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2008 1:35 PM PST reply actions

I like Kleiza

He seems like a reasonably good 2-way player. Doesn't get a lot of assists, but he's a shooter and most shooters don't.

But again, we need a 4. We need a big guy. We need someone who has to be doubled when he gets the ball in the post. It's a big, huge, glaring weakness of this team that we don't have one, and unless there are other trades/moves to address that need, I'm not thrilled.

That said, I think we need to move Artest, and this seems to be a good move. I don't even think I'd hold out for Pookey's 1st round pick.

But I hope there's more coming.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 15, 2008 2:16 PM PST reply actions

But if we did one of these deals....

we couldn't make the Kidd trade ;o

Denver is linked to a whole bunch of different trades. Most of the other trades include the same player in the Artest deal. Maybe the Kings are going to be part of a much bigger 3 or 4 team deal.

As for Kleiza, he could certainly get some minutes if Bibby were to get dealt in a package that didn't include a point. Garcia could shift to the back up point and get more minutes behind Martin.

I really like Pietrus but if he's dealt he has to relinquish his bird rights and then he's useless to the Kings.

Look out for Houston as the dark horse in the Artest sweepstakes.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Feb 15, 2008 2:46 PM PST reply actions

Yeah

I keep waiting for the Houston rumor; it's gotta come at some point.

by Tom Ziller on Feb 15, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions

like you wouldn't believe

It makes so much sense on paper.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Feb 15, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions

We also wouldn't be able to

send Artest to Chicago to hang with his buddy Ben.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 16, 2008 9:28 AM PST up reply actions

Artest could still go back to Chi-town.

Wallace would love to have a defensive guy next to him. It's not like these guys get in fights every time they play each other.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Feb 16, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions

Right

That would be a great chemistry experiment.

The only guy on the Bulls I'd like to have is Ben Gordon.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 16, 2008 9:54 AM PST up reply actions

As far as

three team deals go, something like this sure would be fun: SAC/DEN/NYK

To SAC: David Lee, Nene Hilario, Fred Jones, Malik Rose and Eduardo Najera

To DEN: Zach Randolph

To NYK: Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, and Kenny Thomas

by sroufe on Feb 15, 2008 3:28 PM PST reply actions

Good trade machining but...

You have the Knicks dealing both of their powers. So is Kenny Thomas going to start?

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Feb 15, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions

No Zach Randolph

If the Nuggets acquire Randolph I will throw a brick through the big glass plate windows in front of the Pepsi Center. I will not even care if I get caught.

I can blog from prison, right?

Pickaxe and Roll - an SB Nation Denver Nuggets Blog

by Jeremy on Feb 15, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions

You're right JJ

They'd probably have to start Curry at the 4 with Morris or James at center. Unless they wanted to start Jeffries or Artest at the 4 with Curry at the 5.

But a three team deal might be the best way to unload KT with Ron-Ron at this point...

by sroufe on Feb 15, 2008 3:49 PM PST reply actions

Here's another 3-way deal...

SAC/MEM/MIA

TO SAC: U. Haslem, K. Lowry, D. Wright, AND Memphis' 2nd rnd. pick in 2009 via the Pacers

TO MEM: R. Artest, AND Sacramento's 1st rnd. pick in 2008

TO MIA: M. Miller, AND Sacramento's 2nd rnd. picks in 2009 and 2010

by sroufe on Feb 15, 2008 5:30 PM PST reply actions

1st round pick??????

Those players aren't worth a first round pick let alone in addition to Ron Artest. I think you missed on this one.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Feb 15, 2008 7:21 PM PST up reply actions

I'm telling you...

Sell high on K-Mart, don't sell low on Ron-Ron. Ron's a flat-out baller, tough as nails, wants to win a championship more than anything. And if you're so desperate to tie-bar to K-9 to any deal, you can do it with K-Mart. Unless you feel satisfied about building around Peja II? Oh, I know, K-Mart is just withering because of Ron's aggressive playing style and personality. Hmm, where I have heard that before? Didn't that lead to selling low on C-Webb instead of selling high on Peja I? I know you all think that worked out brilliantly, which is why you've clamoring for Petrie to blow up this team every single year since then. Sell high on Peja II, tie-bar K-9 and Bibby, and get us a real power forward and a real point guard. Don't make the same mistake twice!

Visit sunny and beautiful Movie City USA.

by DB on Feb 15, 2008 6:13 PM PST reply actions

Let's see . . .

Trade the guy who is a great team mate. An unselfish player. A legitamate all star contender with lots of upside. And a good all around person.

And keep the player who screams at the coach and other player, rolls around on the floor and beats his chest (not to mention his wife) for no apparant reason. Scares every GM in the league so badly that despite his incredible talent they won't trade anything of value for him. And thinks he is worth 13-14m next year after he opts out.

What team do you root for again? If you say we should trade him to the Laker, you'll have blown your cover.

by SavageBeast on Feb 15, 2008 7:08 PM PST up reply actions

K-Mart NOT untouchable.

It's safe to say, if I were offered Dwight Howard or Lebron James, I would trade K-Mart for it.

The Sacramento Kings: Where Amazing Happens!

by kingme18 on Feb 15, 2008 7:17 PM PST up reply actions

Sounds like you are looking for

Miss Congeniality.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 15, 2008 11:20 PM PST up reply actions

selling Martin

I find a real sense of truth in the comments about Martin (Peja II). I think some are blindly thinking of him as the King's savior of sorts, but I don't see it. He definately shouldn't be untouchable. Untouchable means... "championships in his future" (LeBron, Yao?, Dwight Howard?), I don't think Martin qualifies. I know he's VERY valuable, but that's why I would love to hear the offers for him! As far as Artest, he's valuable too, but I'm ready for him to go be valuable somewhere else.

by busybe on Feb 15, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions

Missing the point on Martin

Whether or not Martin becomes a franchise player is beside the point. You can build with this guy. The $10 million or so that he will make is in line (or much cheaper) than the 2nd bananas on good teams (see Gasol, Odom, Pierce, Allen, J. Howard, and on and on and on). If he never becomes Batman, he can still help this team as Robin.

Ron-Ron, on the other hand, is Robin, but he keeps trying to steal Batman's costume.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 15, 2008 8:23 PM PST reply actions

Maybe that's the whole problem

Artest just got hit in the head one too many times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoX-HkOcEuE

by SavageBeast on Feb 15, 2008 9:43 PM PST up reply actions

The Problem is

Kevin isn't as good as any of those second bananas save for Odom. He's actually better than Odom probably, but the rest are legitimate stars who can take the big shot in crunch time (and make it). And they don't ask for permission to be a star.

I just don't see him having the upside to be a top banana in this league. He'll always be a nice, efficient scorer who's a little too fragile to get to the next level. A key piece of a puzzle at best, but not top dog on a top team.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 15, 2008 11:18 PM PST up reply actions

Seriously?

Are you really arguing for Artest over Martin again? All those second bananas are nba vets while Kmart is just coming into his own. the best is yet to come with Martin. The rest have hit their peak.

And Don't forget Ron doesn't want to be here. So he won't be for long. Why not get something in return for him?

"I drink your milkshake...I drink it up!!!"

by kangsfan on Feb 16, 2008 1:01 AM PST up reply actions

No I am just talking about Martin

Read the post.

Kevin probably still has some upside, but he'll never be the main cog taking us to the promised land. He can be a very good support player, a third fiddle say, but the Kings will need a bonfide star or two to become championship class.

Kevin is a fine young player, but he will never be at the very top level with the game-changing players like LeBron, Kobe, etc.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 16, 2008 1:24 AM PST up reply actions

only 5 guys

that I am scared of who can take over the game and will their team to victory:

1.Lebron
2.Kobe
3.D-wade
4.KG
5.T-Mac (The game where he had 13 points in 35 seconds to beat the spurs is proof enough)

GO KINGS !!!

by maiku on Feb 16, 2008 1:43 AM PST up reply actions

Ummm bro/sis

Couple things: I may not have been captain hard stare during the Kings-Rockets game but it seemed to that McGrady sucked donkey balls down the stretch. He jumped halfway in the air 3 times in the last time only to make passes. That is not a player you fear in the last 2 minutes of a game. And as far as KG no team has feared him at the end of the games because he traditionally would burn himself before he got to that point rendering him in-effective.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 16, 2008 2:32 AM PST up reply actions

Agreed

Take either of those guys out and maybe throw Billups in...

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 16, 2008 5:33 AM PST up reply actions

Or

Baron Davis

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 16, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions

looking at the whole picture

I'm talking about throughout most of their career. T-Mac has been having a bad season, actually he had a horrible game against us. But really though he can take over a game. As for KG i didn't say he would take over the game but through his raw determination he pretty much can. BUT to make you happy lets just say LEBRON,KOBE,D-WADE are the guys I fear.

GO KINGS !!!

by maiku on Feb 16, 2008 7:55 AM PST up reply actions

If You hadn't noticed

the thread is about shipping RON to Denver for Kleiza and filler.

"I drink your milkshake...I drink it up!!!"

by kangsfan on Feb 16, 2008 10:24 AM PST up reply actions

The bigger problem with trading Kevin is

his contract to begin with. He's only worth 4-5 million in trade value this season & next anyway. Trading him isn't really feasible until after NEXT season. I'll keep saying it until people get it. Which I imagine very few will. So I'll put a sock in it and say Kevin needs a chance to show what he's got without Artest or Bibby around.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 16, 2008 2:09 AM PST up reply actions

Thanks pookey

A very important point, and I have noticed you bringing it up before.

If Kevin's ceiling is, say, a Rip Hamilton type player (I think he can be better personally), he can clearly be an important component to a championship team.

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 16, 2008 5:42 AM PST up reply actions

Who's Talking about Trading Kevin Martin?

Your points are valid regarding it being hard and probably unfeasible to trade Martin, but I think the issues I raise are valid as well.

What I find interesting is everyone wants to draw Artest into the discussion. I am assuming Ron has played his last game for this team, Bibby might be dealt and then we are going to see this play out, pro and con.

Hopefully Kevin will rise to the occasion. And hopefully the Kings will get him some star quality help, because he's going to need it.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 16, 2008 9:10 AM PST up reply actions

Dude

the dicussion actually relates back to DB saying sell high on Kevin, not sell low on Ron.

Nobody's saying Kevin has to be the number one option. Obviously we need much more talent around him to be considered championship caliber.

"I drink your milkshake...I drink it up!!!"

by kangsfan on Feb 16, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions

No trade this season

is going to bring back that player. I'm sorry but it just won't happen. The Kings will have to be lucky in the draft for that to happen.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 16, 2008 12:41 PM PST up reply actions

Agree

Right now the mindset is more about clearing the decks and opening up options going forward. Once the deadline passes we'll have a lot better idea what the Kings will be able to do in the offseason.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 16, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions

Yep my thoughts exactly

Thank you for finally agreeing with me. :) (I'm kidding)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 16, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions

But Pookey

I always agree with you when you're right. :)

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 16, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions

But of course the norse the horse says

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 16, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions

Completely agree

Kevin is locked up, he's young, he's improving, and he brings something that very few teams in the NBA have - a very efficient scorer that can get to the line almost at will.

Tell you what, if Kevin's defense continues to improve, he could be a great second option on a championship contender. The hard part is getting the superstar on the team. And I've been an Artest defender for a long time, but he is NOT a superstar player, and he will NOT accept being the second or third option on a rebuilding team.

So Ron-Ron has to go - Geoff, make it so!!

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 16, 2008 5:39 AM PST up reply actions

Hmmm

I think both Ron and Kevin have weaknesses in their game, and neither is a cornerstone player. Both can be complements to a more complete team, but neither has the ability to be Numero Uno, or probably even Numero Dos, on a championship team. Key pieces, just not the top dog or even second fiddle.

Look at the trade scenarios revolving around Ron, and it's clear he's going to have much better chance chasing a ring in any of those scenarios than he could by hanging around here and waiting for the Kings to commit to a championship pursuit. He's seen the writing on the wall, and that's why he's outta here, as much as anything.

Again, as some people have a hard time getting it, this isn't about who's a better player between Artest and Martin.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 16, 2008 9:18 AM PST up reply actions

it sounds like...

you guys have given up on this season already... I know the west is a beast on steroids right now and it's near impossible to get into the playoffs but I still believe in the team we have here. But I only started to enjoy watching us play with Garcia and Salmons on the floor. They showed what a team with heart plays like. ANYWAYS we do need a real PF so we should trade either Ron or Bibby or both for something like that.

GO KINGS !!!

by maiku on Feb 15, 2008 10:39 PM PST reply actions