Amick: Denver, Houston Unwilling to Trade Kleiza, Brooks

by Ziller on Feb 20, 2008 9:51 AM PST in Free Agency/Trades Comment 37 comments

Sam Amick has an update on where things stand with regard to the assumed dance partners. Here's a slice:

According to several league sources, the Kings had recent talks with Denver and Houston pertaining to the small forward. And for now, the discussions have left both teams leaning against making a move for Artest. The formula is the same in both scenarios, with the Kings looking for a combination of expiring contracts, draft picks and - insert snag here - young talent.

Basically, Denver wants to keep Linas Kleiza and Houston wants to keep Aaron Brooks. Those are dealbreakers for Geoff Petrie.

There's a bit of new information in Amick's post too, that the Kings approached Houston about Artest and that Houston returned the call. HMM.

UPDATE: It looks like San Antonio's offer is also expirings and a pick (same link). My updated preference of the talent you assume Petrie is targetting from these three teams:

Ian Mahinmi > Linas Kleiza > Tiago Splitter > Aaron Brooks

Though if Scola comes with Brooks, it'd be hard to deny that one.

(My one problem with Splitter: You can't evaluate him until he comes over, which would be this summer at the soonest. There's also the chance he signs another big Spanish contract, a la Fran Vasquez or [possibly] Rudy Fernandez. Of course, it is moot so long as San Antonio hasn't put him on the table.)

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Sam

I got the feeling while listening to him this morning that a deal was going to happen - IF the Kings got talent in return. We can still sign and trade Ron in the summer, so it's not the end of the world if we keep him the rest of the year. If he gives us what he gave last night 75% of the time, I'd be delighted. Guy is playing inspired ball right now. Still, for the long term, I still believe he needs to be traded. I just don't think it absolutely has to happen now.

Somebody made a good point in an earlier post: Artest and Salmons have to find a way to co-exist. It's been too much of a zero sum game with these two.

Good to see Spence get a few minutes last night. He usually does a couple of things each time he plays that gives me hope. Last night, he made a beautiful move and finished with this left-hand. (Reminded me a bit of McHale.) I know folks want to see him play more, but I like how Reggie is handling him this year.

by Kusian on Feb 20, 2008 10:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I heard that as well

Sounded like Petrie had some irons in the fire, but no specifics.

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 20, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

If they keep Ron, it's Ron and Kevin that need to co-exist, and we saw some real flashes of that last night in the fourth quarter when they had both on the right side.

For opponents, it's pick your poison. Leave Ron one-and-one on the blocks, and he shoots 62% going to the hole. Double him, and he kicks out to Kevin for the open three. Or Kevin drives to hole and usually gets a hoop or goes to the line.

Ron gets it. Like he told Amick:
"You've got to see what pieces fit around Kevin Martin, and I'm trying to be that piece to fit around Kevin Martin. It's hard, because Kevin's an up and coming 20-point scorer. Kevin's still learning. Everybody's trying to get numbers. It's hard. It's hard."

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/010677.html

If Francisco can be a reliable 3-baller from the left side, that gives you another solid option if they double Kevin on the drive, if Kevin can learn to make that pass. Or that can be Salmons.

Salmons is the one that needs to make the adjustments.

If they trade Artest, who do they have to post up? Spencer Hawes? Sheldon Williams? Mikki Moore? Please. This team simply won't have the tools to compete, this year or in the future.

Kevin, Brad and Ron give you a core to build around. I don't think Petrie is going to blow that up unless he gets the deal of deals, meaning Ron for young talent AND max expirings AND multiple draft picks.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

interesting takes

Really good point about Martin. My point about Salmons is that the guy who was our MVP the first 40 games is now non-existent. Be good to have him back. I agree, though, John has to adjust. His role changed. Hopefully, he and his teammates can adjust to that fact.

My only disagreement with you is on Spence. He can post right now and will be a monster in the future. There isn't anybody on our team currently with his foot work and skill on the low block. He needs time to mature and, more importantly, get stronger. When that happens, he's going to be a big threat. If conversations I've heard with Reggie are accurate, expect to see Hawes on the low block more and more as the season progresses.

by Kusian on Feb 20, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I Agree on Spencer

Eventually. Asking a little too much at the moment, though. And I don't ever see him being as dominant a threat as Artest down low.

The good thing about Spencer is if he is getting his butt kicked down low, he spots up outside and nails the 3. The kid has a lot of upside and I hope they play him more in the second half.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand the we can always sign and

trade attitude. I can't think of any recent deals where a team got anything of value back in a sign and trade(please enlighten me). Also, we're still not in great salary cap shape, so if we have to take back 12-13 mil of crap in a sign and trade, or 8 mil of crap and a prospect. It would hurt us. We can take crap now, because it expires in 3 months, that won't be the case in the off season. I think the choices are trade him now, let him walk or resign him. Which to me means we have to trade him now.

by Kfan in Korea on Feb 20, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Houston

Artest and McGrady together in Houston? Holy malcontents, Batman!

Third Quarter Collapse: An SB Nation Blog for Orlando Magic fans

by Ben Q Rock on Feb 20, 2008 10:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I see a trade going through

I dont have any "coolcat" links to back up my comment, but I am pretty sure a trade will go through before the deadline. Petrie is a good GM, and I am sure he starts negotiating by asking for a lot. Games like last night show why potential contenders willbe asking about Ron; he can play some great 'D', and is nearly impossible to match up with on the offensive side. If he wasnt so damn crazy, I would want to keep him.

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Feb 20, 2008 10:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'd be fine if Mike is the only person we trade

If they don't want to part with a young player then don't give them Ron. Most of the West is getting better, it's up to them if they want to be on the same page with the west's best. We don't need to win now so we really don't need to do anything.

Lastly, 2 questions

1)Why in the world would Hou want to keep Brooks considering the fact that they have too many PGs

and

2)Why in the world would we want Brooks?

by kingme on Feb 20, 2008 10:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

TZ mentioned this a week back or so...

But Petrie was actually thinking about taking brooks 10th at one point, he's that high on him. Though obviously we didn't, there must be something there that Petrie likes an awful lot.

by moproblemz on Feb 20, 2008 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Brooks

Would be an insurance policy. There's no guarantee we'll be able to sign Beno this summer, and even if we did, we don't have a back-up in case of injury.

As for why they want to keep Brooks so bad, maybe it's precisely because Petrie is asking for him that they value him so highly. Same with Kleiza and Lee.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 20, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Brooks

with the 10th pick? Are you kidding me. I can understand that he's an insurance policy but not for Artest. There are a lot of guards that we can easily sign if Beno gets injured. Brooks might be a talented player but, again, not for Artest. Thats worst than Shelden for Mike. I, at least, like Shelden

by kingme on Feb 20, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

I'm not fired up about Brooks at all.

"When the Going Gets Weird, the Weird Turn Pro." (Hunter S Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Feb 20, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Kleiza...

The new Luol Deng? A nice player who, thanks to desire by other teams, has his desirability irrationally inflated. I'd understand wanting him from Sacramento's perspective, but I can't understand not trading he and his 11pt, 4 brd averages from Denver's. Granted Artest is a head case, and granted you'll have to pay him, but wasn't all self control thrown out the window when they traded for Iverson? Now they've decided to exercise "restraint?" And they do so with Kleiza? Kleiza is a great piece for a rebuilding team, but he isn't a cornerstone of a contender. Isn't that precisely why Sacramento wants him? Asking for him isn't asking for much, but it's enough to make the Artest loss palletable. Just because a person's hungry enough for a Snackwell it doesn't suddenly make the other person's Snackwell steak...does it?

by rbiegler on Feb 20, 2008 10:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Deng is

legit (2nd to LeBron when he was still in HS). Kleiza, so far looks like a good role player.

by kingme on Feb 20, 2008 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Deng's

a bad ass, to be sure. But the Bulls inability to accomplish anything on the Garnett/Gasol/Kobe front was a direct result of their refusal to part ways with him. Now I'm not saying Deng isn't a potential All Star, but you better hope he's a potential M.V.P. if you're spurning offers for those guys. Boston was reticent, after all, to trade Jefferson, and their acquiescence seems to have worked out well for them...

by rbiegler on Feb 20, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If I recall....

Chicago did offer Deng for Kobe, and Kobe said he'd veto the deal if Deng wasn't in Chi-town with him.

I also seem to recall that in the Gasol (and maybe even the KG) rumors, they wanted to keep 2/3 of their core of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng, but Minny & Memphis wanted 2 of those guys as well, which was usually where talks stalled.

So while I completely agree with your sentiment, I believe that they were willing to give him up under the right circumstances.

by smgmatt on Feb 20, 2008 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Houston...

needs to realize something:

they have the coach that can control Artest. i'm just sayin'

by vfettke on Feb 20, 2008 11:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm wondering

If teams are really more worried about the on-court control of Artest or his opt-out at the end of the season?

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 20, 2008 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

I think some teams worry about one and some teams worry about the other.

by Ziller on Feb 20, 2008 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Quite likely true

Which makes San Antonio a pretty logical place for him to go. They probably feel they have the structure in place to keep him focused on the court, and wouldn't be horribly upset if he opted out and didn't return next season.

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 20, 2008 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Forgotten Man

Writeup on Bibby's first game with the Hawks. They had 17 turnovers at the half :)

http://www.ajc.com/wireless/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/02/20/hawks_0220.html

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 11:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Another Take on Artest to Denver

Olney, Md.: Artest in Denver sounds like a risky chemistry experiment that could blow with no warning

Michael Lee: Oh, it sounds awful. I can only imagine a locker room with Iverson, Kenyon, Melo, Artest and JR Smith. Talk about combustible. I like those guys, but I don't know if they need to be in the same pot together. It would be different if Ron Artest wasn't in a contract year, but he could really disrupt things. Then again, perimeter defense is one of the biggest problems for Denver. If George Karl could convince Ron Ron to focus on that end, and not worry about scoring then it could work. But Ron might not buy into that. He hated that he couldn't be the focal point offensively in Indiana, and most of his problems in Sacramento (and his battles with Mike Bibby) centered around touches. I don't like it. Denver needs a point guard, not Ron Ron.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/02/15/DI2008021502970.html

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 12:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Kevin's Take

``After the trade, we feel like we have our team,'' said Kings guard Kevin Martin.

I know this was in one of the game reports from last night, but I am lifting it from the USA Today preview of tonight's game against Bibby and the Hawks.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores108/108051/NBA776635.htm

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 12:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I saw that as well

And from hearing Amick on the Rise Guys this morning, it sounds like Kevin is a Ron-Ron fan.

Unfortunately, Amick also pointed out that Kev's opinion is not universally shared in the locker room. Everyone seems to generally like Artest, but aren't sold on his ability to fit a system on the court on a nightly basis.

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 20, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And who

inquiring minds want to know, doesn't share that opinion in the Kings locker room?

I don't see Brad as being in the anti-Ron camp, and the rest of the guys are role players who need to worry more about their own games.

Ron and Kevin are a pretty dynamic duo, and Brad is a great compliment. Everyone else just needs to pass the ball and knock down open looks and play solid D.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

More Kmart

Ron creates double teams, and that gives Kmart some room to maneuver. Deal Ron, and those double teams will shift to Kmart. Could get frustrating for the young lad.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't jump my shit sir

Just relaying what Amick said. I'd assume he has a bit more feel for the locker room than you or I.

And the implication wasn't that the guys are anti-RonRon, not at all.

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 20, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not "Jumping" Anything

I was just curious, that's all. A lot of times they throw out a generic comment like that and it turns out to be the ninth and 10th guys on the bench.

I am sure it's interesting to be Ron's teammate and that comes with some good and bad. I doubt if it's something overbearing, though, where there's a clear locker room consensus that it would be great to see the guy gone.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tiago Splitter

would be a nice acquisition! He was a player I was hoping might land here in last year's draft.

Splitter has serious athleticism, he's got a 7'2" wingspan, he weighs 245 and he's quick. He's a smart player and a good ball handler but he definitely doesn't mind mixing it up. He's not much of a shooter but he's real good on the pick and roll and he can score in the post. And have you seen the guy get up and down the court? It's pretty crazy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxF2juGdZk4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq7f7dt-kOU&feature=related

"When the Going Gets Weird, the Weird Turn Pro." (Hunter S Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Feb 20, 2008 12:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Loved the music on the second link.

Splitter looks good from three feet with a useless Euro dragging on him, I wonder how NBA ready he is.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 20, 2008 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ron

If Ron played like he did last night all the time, the Kings wouldn't be dealing him. Sadly those games are few and don't come on a consistant basis. This is why he will be elsewhere.

For all we know Ron will decide tonight that he wants to be a two guard and will start hoisting up jump shots. I remember the talk about Ralph Sampson was playing, he had the skills at 7ft 4' to play two guard, which is nice but at that hight what he really needed was a post game and some toughness. Ron can be the same way, he forgets his core skill set and tries to show the other stuff, which helps noone. As a team mate he would be hard to play with as don't know what he is doing from one day to the next. Sadly you don't win a star player who isn't reliable

I loved in the final few minutes Beno breaks down the D, gets to the free throw line, could have pulled up for an easy jumper, but instead sees an open Fransisco and hits him for a three. I'd think as a team mate you'd love that

by Murf on Feb 20, 2008 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

If you really watch Ron's game

You see he dishes out a lot of those passes as well. Last night, for example, he's trapped underneath and out of nowhere finds Brad for an easy lay-in.

Just remember Artest scores almost one out of every five points for the Kings and assists on about 1 in every 13 points. So between the two he's creating more than a quarter of the Kings offense while drawing the other team's No. 1 offensive option in most cases on defense.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Last night

Good Ron showed up. Bad Ron doesn't pass out of the double team. He puts it up anyway, gets blocked, and turns it over.

If we could have Good Ron every night, guaranteed, I'd be delighted to keep him long term. He is monster and can take over games.

The problem is, sometimes he's a monster who can take over games in a bad way, too.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 20, 2008 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And what do

Bad Kevin, Bad Brad, Bad John, Bad Francisco and Bad Beno do when they are off their games?

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2008 6:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

But...

no one's afraid to tell them to quit shooting the ball. No one worries that one of those guys will punch them in the face if you tell them what to do.

by vfettke on Feb 20, 2008 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs