Last Night in the D-League...

by Ziller on Feb 27, 2008 6:50 AM PST in Recaps Comment 30 comments

That is all.

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Am I the only one who...

I found it kind of annoying that the radio crew just kind of wrote this loss off as a case of the South Beach flu. I wasn't able to catch the whole game, but from what I can tell, a lot of that 3rd quarter resembled the Orlando game Sunday. I don't think it was the South Beach flu yet. Long road trip maybe, but not partying.

And I guess it's time to start getting used to more Quincy Douby. Hopefully Theus realizes soon that at best he's a backup two guard, and keeps him far far away from anything resembling ball distribution.

Muff rules. http://vegaskings.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Feb 27, 2008 8:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

QD did get at least a few minutes at the two with Beno in the game... only Beno took the opportunity to play like a two, and QD had the worst turnover this side of Zach Randolph.

by Ziller on Feb 27, 2008 9:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Shame

I couldn't see the game, but of what I read, it was an effortless game for the kings except hawes. We were better a few months ago, without artest and bibby because of injury. That team play hard and with heart, they lose some games but they gave everything on the court, it was fun.

Maybe they were tired, but come on, 2 field goals in the third?? they finally shot one with 2 or 3 minutes left in that quarter??

That makes me think we should give away miller and let artest walk away in the summer, so we can start fresh, with the future, something like portland is achieving.

I just hope they play harder in the games left to play.

Martin, for the win!!!

by Kjack on Feb 27, 2008 9:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Is Reggie's Curfew gone?

Kings forward Mikki Moore wondered aloud whether the allure of the Miami nightlife from the previous two nights had any impact on the lack of energy.

"I don't know what other guys did last night, but I think we just came out slow tonight," Moore said. "It worries me because every time we get close to .500, we always give up games that we're not supposed to lose."

Reggie came out so strong at first, I really hope he isn't losing this team.

by SavageBeast on Feb 27, 2008 9:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

we are tanking !!!!

what happened to gracia and salmons minutes ??? why are we playing hawes so much over douby ???? come on I actually enjoyed watching them play the first 3 games after the trade deadline.

GO KINGS !!!

by maiku on Feb 27, 2008 9:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

what?

"why are we playing hawes so much over douby ????"

What the hell are you talking about? Ahhh, one is a center and the other is a combo guard. Spencer is the 2nd best scoring big man we have while Douby is...well, I'm not certain what he brings besides an occassional outburst of 3 point shooting and poor ball-handling. Their minutes are not related.

Now, I'm with you about Cisco minutes. Salmons is playing himself out of the rotation these days.

by Kusian on Feb 27, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maiku

come on I actually enjoyed watching them play the first 3 games after the trade deadline.

I hope you meant the first three games after the Bibby trade but before the trade deadline.

The three games after the Bibby trade were wins (high points: Artest, Artest, Garcia), The three games after the trade deadline (all losses) are the games (high points: Artest, Shawes, Miller/Udrih)that came after Artest declared himself happy in Sacramento and the future centerpiece of the Kings.

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Feb 27, 2008 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the curfew's been done for a while

That whole Reggie's Rules thing is only something he really enforced in the preseason I think. I'm pretty sure I heard Peaches tell Lamb sometime early in the season that those rules had been relaxed a bit. As good an idea as the curfew is, we also have to remember these guys are people too and need breaks to blow off some steam during the long season, especially during long road trips. Blowing off that steam before playing the worst team in the league is probably the best opportunity to do so, unfortunatly last night was also the first of a back-to-back.

That all being said, blaming the Miami night life if just an excuse. They didn't blame the Orlando nightlife for that loss and the lack of effort seemed suspiciously similar.

We'll probably have to start getting used to more losses like this since even mentioning the playoffs and Kings in the same sentence is laughable. Theus will take this opportunity to play other younger players that weren't fixtures in his early season rotation, like keeping Douby in instead of puttng Speedracer back in. It sucks, but we gotta see what these guys can do. Hopefully Theus works this rotation out a little better than he has the last couple games, but again, it's not like it's killing our playoff hopes anyways.

Muff rules. http://vegaskings.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Feb 27, 2008 10:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Blowing off steam is one thing

Blowing off the morning shootaround because of a hangover is something entirely different. If you remember, the reason Reggie implemented the rules in the first place was because several people (including payers if I recall right) had pointed out to him that late nights before games were a big problem with last year's Kings.

As a rookie coach (whether he wants to be called that or not) Reggie's grip on controlling this team is tenuous at best. Things could go down hill quite quickly if he doesn't find himself a pair soon.

by SavageBeast on Feb 27, 2008 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What I'd like to hear

from all you Artest fans out there, is how you justify things like this.

How do you defend a guy who blows off practice (this wasn't the first time) or refuses to let the coach take him out of a game?

Explain to me how this kind of player is NOT detrimental to the team's chemistry. Explain to me how a veteran player is justified in undermining his coach to this extent. Tell me why, exactly, you feel that Artest should be excused from following the same rules as everyone else.

Because the only excuse that I can see is that we were unable to trade Artest because of his well-documented emotional instability, and everybody from Petrie on down has to walk on eggshells around this guy to keep him from totally going off and destroying whatever value he might have to another team.

Anybody have a different take? Anybody want to set me straight?

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 27, 2008 2:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

crickets

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Feb 27, 2008 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

By That Same Rationale

Salmons could be fined for his comments in the paper, which clearly are critical of Reggie for not getting him the ball. See Moore, Mikki after the Nets game.

Re: Artest, it's unclear that he "blew off practice." Maybe he was sick and told Reggie and Reggie let him off.

It's an 82-game season that lasts six months. How many practices has he missed, and how many were excused? What specifically has he done after he returned from the season-opening suspension to make you have a cow?

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 27, 2008 2:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not the same thing at all

Mikki and Salmons expressing their frustration publicly is not equivalent to telling the coach your knees are sore and then telling the press that you were tired and didn't feel like practicing that day, citing that you play a lot of minutes, which Artest did fairly recently.

It's also not the same as refusing point blank to leave the floor when the coach is trying to make a substitution, forcing JWilliams to run off the floor, and forcing Theus to call a time out.

And if Artest was sick in the morning yesterday, he shouldn't have played last night, unless it was indeed a case of SouthBeach Flu and he needed time to get over his hangover. He certainly didn't help the team on either end of the court.

So once again, justify the behavior. Not having a cow here, I just want to know how you think that this kind of thing doesn't hurt the team.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 27, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mikki was fined,

no idea whether or not Salmons will face the same fate.

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Feb 27, 2008 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Let Me Summarize

One missed practice (or was that first one also a shootaround?) and one missed shootaround so far. And he didn't come out of a game. Wow. Time to book him.

And he had the audacity to play in the evening when he was sick in the morning. Some folks would call that sucking it up. I recall Brandon Roy playing against the Kings at less than 100% recently, but I guess if you had been McMillan, you would made him sit out that night. Right.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 27, 2008 4:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

You're not answering the question

You're justifying, minimizing, and making excuses, bringing other players into the equation, and completely obfuscating the issue. I don't care about Brandon Roy's headcold. I don't care what Salmons or Mikki said to the press. We also don't know how many times Artest has declined practice or shoot-around, only the number of times it's made it into the papers. Artest won't let the coach pull him out of games. He plays more minutes than anyone else regardless of how well he's playing or match-ups. He screams at the coach. He shoots his mouth off to the media. He told his coach his knees were sore and told reporters he was tired. If it were any player other than your pedestal-dwelling Ron-Ron, you'd be all over them, citing PERs and +/- stats. The question is simple. Justify to me why you think Artest deserves preferential treatment, and why you think this kind of behavior doesn't hurt the team or don't bother replying to the post, because you're not addressing the very plainly worded question I asked in my original post. We all know you love Ron. I love my kids, too. But I call them on their bad behavior. Of course, none of my kids could be considered a time-bomb...

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 27, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't kniow about KK

Seems like a perfectly competent time bomb to me.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 27, 2008 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

KillerKing is more like Chinese Water Torture. Drives you crazy a little at a time. DripDripDripDripDripDripDrip

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by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 27, 2008 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

KK

Every time y'all reduce killerking's ID to KK, I think I've been adopted and have the right to boot killerking out of his opulent basement.

Is it true?

-Hopeful Optimist (and happy oxymoronist).

: )

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Feb 27, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry KK

KillerKing will now be referred to KKing.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 28, 2008 2:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dang it!

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Feb 28, 2008 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's ok

I'll adopt you anyway.

You do dishes, right? (But, hey, watch the knives!)

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 29, 2008 7:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I do dishes...

and I am always careful around knives.

Shoot, if I could live in a rent-free opulent basement, I might even wash the family cars without complaining.

Plus, I'm pretty much in line with the family Kings philosophy already.

-Hopeful adoptee

: )

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Feb 29, 2008 10:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Dean's List

I think you lack perspective, are clearly biased and are blowing the Artest situation out of perspective.

I also think the entertainment industry, of which the NBA is a part, is a little unusual in that the stars are making so much more money than some of their bosses and some of their co-players.

I assume that top-level executives in the corporate world are treated better than the janitors at the same company. There is a similar double-standard in the entertainment industry. In the NBA, though, even the "janitors" (ie. Douby) are paid pretty well.

It really comes down to performance in any kind of evaluation. You weigh the good and the bad, and if the good outweighs the bad, you keep the employee, and vice versa.

Unless your kids are making $7 million a year, it's probably best to keep them out this. But if you are looking for a similar example, you might consider a kid who makes the dean's list but is caught ditching school.

Ron Artest is on the dean's list of small forwards in the NBA, his effort in the court is generally outstanding, and I don't think the incidents you have mentioned warrant dismissal.

Persist if you must, but I have learned it's best not to tug on Superman's cape or to try to win arguments with savage gerbils.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 28, 2008 5:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm biased, but you're not?

You consider Artest in the top 5% (dean's list) of small forwards in the league? I don't, so we clearly disagree there.

As far as Artest's performance, my perception is that Artest performs when Artest wants to perform. Right after Bibby got traded, he was stellar. But since then his shot selection has been poor, his defense has been, at best, porous, and his mouth has been running. (The bloggers hate me. Jesus wore sandals. I'm Kraft.)

And I evaluate Artest's worth based, not only on his individual performance, but also on how he affects the team as a whole. I'm a Kings fan, and I've been one since they came to Sacramento. I've had players I've liked, and players I've disliked. Pete Chilcut comes to mind as a player I actively disliked. I groaned every time he came on the floor, because he made Mikki Moore look like VelcroMan.

My opinion is that Artest's behavior is bad for the team as a whole, and the young players in particular.

Regardless of how much money he makes (that's a totally specious and irrelevant point) how do you justify the behavior? It's a question I've asked three times now, and you still haven't answered it.

Unless you consider minimizing the behavior and making excuses justification.

For the record, I do have a child who is on the honor roll and was caught ditching school (by me) and I took away car keys and cell phone for a week, and assigned multiple chores to make sure that the message was crystal clear-- that certain types of behavior are unacceptable.

And calling us savage gerbils is nasty and petty. If you can't have a conversation about basketball without ad hominem attacks, then, again, don't bother to reply to this post.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 28, 2008 7:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Corrections and differences of opinion

The Dean's List is not necessarily top 5%. Usually it's based on a grade point average of 3.5, sometimes lower. Usually a lot more than 5% of a school's kids make the Dean's List.

I've said earlier that Ron is not in the top 5 of the league's 30 starting small forwards, but is somewhere in the top half. Probably somewhere in the 8-12 range is where I would put him.

He's also probably in the top 50 of all NBA players. Not an All-Star, but overall, a solid player who can make a difference on both ends of the court. I can't imagine what the Kings record would look like this season if he were not on the team.

I've also said I am not against moving him if we can get something decent in return. You, on the other hand, would just as soon give him away for nothing. Big difference.

On the other points, let's just say we disagree. I don't view his behavior as negatively as you do and I don't agree with you on what you feel is his negative effect on the team's chemistry. And frankly, I don't think either one of us is close enough to the actual situation to accurately judge.

But, hey, if Reggie can take away Ron's car keys and cell phone and that will make you happy, I'm all for it.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 28, 2008 7:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Savage Gerbils

Savage was a play on your husband's name.

Gerbils I got from a sale book by Stephan Schiffman, a noted sales trainer. Basically they go round and round the cage all day and never get anywhere. You can read Schiffman's take on gerbils at these links:

http://books.google.com/books?id=07Yzsdj2wVwC&pg=PA221&dq=stephan+schiffman+gerbils&sig= N5E6C2T-pyMSINi2J5lL_ssAbSU

http://books.google.com/books?id=bGPPBmzKmvgC&pg=PA8&dq=stephan+schiffman+gerbils&sig=88 5UhDv0JCXY-6c9xwzVYw6MeMI

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 28, 2008 8:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I caught that it was a play on my husband's name. Blonde doesn't always equal stupid. But in order for it to be a "play on words" it ought to be funny or clever and obvious to everyone that it was a joke, which this was not.

Your tone is offensively condescending, and I couldn't possibly care less about your links in reference to gerbils. It was name-calling, and therefore rude.

You want to make this argument personal, but it's not. I think Artest is bad for the team. You think he's the savior, and as one holding that opinion, you are willing to turn a blind eye to his, (euphamistically speaking) eccentricities.

As far as being willing to let him go for nothing, I was the one who wanted to trade him. But now it's entirely possible that he'll opt out at the end of the season and we WILL get nothing. So that argument doesn't hold water, my comments about stale Twinkies notwithstanding.

Flatly stated, my opinion is this. Artest is bad for the team because he is not coachable and can't be held accountable for his bad behavior because he'll explode. I wish with every fiber of my Kings-loving being that he had been traded, but at this point, seeing him walk away and getting nothing for him would be far preferable to me than keeping him long-term.

That you disagree, I know. We all know at this point. I just can't understand how a person's talent excuses being a disruptive force. And you never answered my question, unless you consider calling me a gerbil is your idea of cerebral argument.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 28, 2008 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I think you and the fam generally have me beat for being "rude and offensively condescending." But that's cool.

I would correct you on one thing: I don't view Ron Artest as the Kings savior. Naturally that's the way you want to spin it despite what I've actually said, but you are just plain wrong.

We also all know how you feel. Carry on.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 28, 2008 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Come on coolcat

You're better than this post. You can support Ron's with your cherry picked stats and what not, but defending his every move is pathetic. You come acros like a school girl with a crush.

Are you on his payroll, or just trying to be?

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Feb 27, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs