The Future is A Week Ago
I think that if you had a time machine, and you walked up to Geoff Petrie and offered him your time machine for the low, low price of one cheese sandwich, he would buy your time machine. And he would use it.
1-3 since the trade deadline does not sound terrible, on the surface. It's a road trip after all. But holy cow, keeping Ron Artest was a bad decision. If you don't believe the world I'm callin'...
- Ron Artest is a game changer on both ends of the floor. Since the deadline, the Kings have given up: 115 points in 106 possessions (CHA, #24 offense), 112 pts/96 poss (ORL, #5 offense), 107 pts/96 poss (MIA, #28 offense), 123 pts/102 poss (ATL, #23 offense). That, sir, is not good defense, sir. Artest has averaged 37 minutes in that spread, more than any other King. DOES NOT COMPUTE.
- In the press following the Miami loss, Mikki Moore actually said this: "I don't know what other guys did last night, but I think we just came out slow tonight." Ron Artest, the team's leader and game changer, missed the morning shoot-around with "stomach issues and a headache." He still played and shot 3 of 14 against the #24 defense in the league.
- Sam Amick reports the following in this morning's game story:
When you are too hungover to go to shoot-around, you lose all claims to hunger and desire. If you are too wrapped up in drink and dance (and possibly other things) to make sure you are fully prepared to do your job the next day, you are not allowed to bark back at the coach when he questions your committment. You have made your proverbial bed. Sleep in it.
Theus, contrary to popular belief (in some circles), cannot control Ron Artest. Why? Because no one can control Ron Artest. Bill Cartwright -- a father figure, says Ron -- could not do it. Chuck Person -- a brother, says Ron -- cannot do it. Ron's own conscience could not do it, as proved in Indianapolis.
What had been a highly enjoyable season has suddenly become Musselman Part II. AWESOME.
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101 comments
Comments
Wow...
by vfettke on
Feb 28, 2008 7:43 AM PST
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Yeah
by Carl on
Feb 28, 2008 9:08 AM PST
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Who Wanted Artest?
by aspen on
Feb 28, 2008 10:55 AM PST
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Umm...
by vfettke on
Feb 28, 2008 12:14 PM PST
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I doubt
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 12:42 PM PST
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Um
by Ziller on
Feb 28, 2008 1:12 PM PST
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It was also reported
by coolcatreportdotcom on
Feb 28, 2008 1:21 PM PST
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Different
Two Denver papers, the Sacramento paper, and ESPN all reported Denver had offered the expirings + first-round offer, and that the Kings were holding out for Kleiza.
Slight difference.
by Ziller on
Feb 28, 2008 1:40 PM PST
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Hmmm
Regardless..I'm glad we didnt..We already have a log-jam at the 2-3
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 1:23 PM PST
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You're glad..
Smith was the necessary expiring contract to pair with Najera.
by Ziller on
Feb 28, 2008 1:39 PM PST
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I
I actually like Smith's game but he has character issue concerns as well. (not as many as Artest though)
About Douby...I'm just not sold on him quite yet TZ. He's got a good shot and long arms but I dont like tweener's like him who can't really play either guard position. Most tweeners can at least play 1 of the 2 positions somewhat effectively, I just don't see him doing that. Only time/playing time will tell though. Although, I'd rather have him earn it in practice as opposed to shipping away quality players/trade bait (in Artest's case) in an effort to give him a "chance"
The draft pick would have probobly been in the low 20's as well cause I see the Nugs making a run in the playoffs
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 2:22 PM PST
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petrie's
by Travis Mays Hayes on
Feb 28, 2008 5:54 PM PST
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The optimist in me
by 27freethrows on
Feb 29, 2008 2:42 PM PST
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The trade...
by Carl on
Feb 29, 2008 9:39 AM PST
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He
by Hoops916 on
Feb 29, 2008 10:07 AM PST
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There isn't a sign & trade
by pookeyguru on
Feb 29, 2008 10:12 AM PST
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Starting to wonder
Maybe he would consider a similar salary if it's a longer term deal, but that might sour potential trade partners who would rather pay a higher annual for a shorter length contract. But that would put the franchise in luxury tax territory.
So in my mind, we either let Artest walk or hope he doesn't opt out, and try to trade him again down the road.
Difficult options, to be sure.
by otis29 on
Feb 29, 2008 10:19 AM PST
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For anybody who thought
by pookeyguru on
Feb 29, 2008 10:22 AM PST
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I think there is at least a 50-60% chance
The second is a sign and trade that most of us agree is difficult to pull off at best. The thing is, this is not a typical S&T situation. Nobody has the big bucks that Ron wants, and even teams that have those bucks aren't likely to spend them on someone with Ron's history.
That being said, it moves back to a much more typical trade scenario. A team might take a chance if they don't have to add his whole salary, so an S&T is much more palatable. And I honestly don't see any team taking on more than $7-$8m on someone as unpredictable as Ron.
Nothing is normal in the world of Ron Ron.
by SavageBeast on
Feb 29, 2008 3:02 PM PST
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Ease up
Quite frankly, Petrie knows good and well what he is doing. I honestly do not believe that he truly believes Artest will sign with the Kings for the long-term. I believe he will attempt to shop Artest in the off-season through a sign and trade. Assuming we get something back in return, it beats the shit out of the TRASH that the Kings were getting offered for him last week. (at least what those of us "outside" the organization believe GP was getting offered).
I agree with Marty Mcneal, in his article from this mornings Bee, that the Kings are not THAT far away. We NEED a low-post presence in the worst way, and I think Artest's talent warrents legitimate sign and trade bait to fill that void.
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 8:01 AM PST
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to look at it completely objectively
In the case of Artest, last week he was worth expiring contracts and a first round pick, I really don't think (as in the case of Memphis) there was a better offer out there that Petrie didn't take the time to see. So how on earth is his play right now INCREASING his trade value for the off-season? The Artest offers are only going to get worse if things stay the way they are now.
by Travis Mays Hayes on
Feb 28, 2008 5:59 PM PST
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And ...
Being too hung over to play is pretty bad though, but these tyes of things have been goin on for years. I dont see this as a Theus or Musselman issue, its just human-nature fellas. And it not new!
Remember the L-Train missed a few games cause he had messed up his right thumb...From playing PAPERBOY on the Friggin Nintendo...True Story!
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 8:08 AM PST
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Hoops
But the thing is, all of this has happened since we made the comitment to keep him. It's not just partying the night before a big game, it's not just skipping practice, it's not just demanding the ball, it's not just yelling at the coach and refusing to leave the game. It's that all this happened since we didn't trade him--and he's playing like crap! A time when he should be showing loyalty and earning a new contract.
If you don't think other GMs don't notice this too, your drinking Ron Ron's Kool-Aid. That gaint sucking sound you hear is Ron's value going even lower if that is possible.
Mark my words. This could get very ugly, very fast.
by SavageBeast on
Feb 28, 2008 8:21 AM PST
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My guess?
If actions speak louder than words, then what do Ron's actions of the last week show you??
by otis29 on
Feb 28, 2008 8:31 AM PST
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Otis
by pookeyguru on
Feb 28, 2008 12:26 PM PST
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Hoops
Evidently, most of the other teams in the league have figured out how to control themselves in Miami.
by otis29 on
Feb 28, 2008 8:27 AM PST
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By
We just suck...plain and simple...We have 1 (possibly 2 if you consider the future of the PG position) glaring problem, and until we address it we will continue to be an inconsistant team.
I agree, theres no excuse for losing that game!
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 8:34 AM PST
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This whole road trip
This team needs to string a few decent performances together to get that good feeling back they had a week or so ago.
by otis29 on
Feb 28, 2008 8:36 AM PST
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Hoops916
by LeaguePassAddict on
Feb 28, 2008 9:32 AM PST
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LeaguePass
We have NO 4. I love Mikki for his intangibles but he does not compliment Brad well. Its OK to have 1 softy big man, only if the other big can play BIG. Right now we are screwed because both of our big men are candy-asses. (the fact that Brad is a candy-ass takes nothing away from the good year he is having). these 2 men simply do not compliment each other well!
I like Beno's game alot but as of right now, he too is inconsistent. Granted, he is young and still adopting to his role as "Our #1 Pg", so I dont hold him too accountable. I have a feeling he'll turn out fine for us!
So thats why I agree with Marty Mcneal AND still think that we suck right now because of our inconsistancy.
I'm not worried about Beno's future (if we can sign him). Assuming he continues to grow and develope I dont see any harm in trying to sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal and see where that takes us.
As far as our BIG's are concerned. One of them must be placed on the bench (preferably Mikki) and replaced by a BIG in order for our team to compete.
Right now we are solid 1-3 and either 4 or 5! Replace one of those two and we'll have a starting 5 that can compete and we'll have a solid bench. I don't think we are that far away, but our inconsistancy results in our team sucking!
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 10:15 AM PST
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Just my opinion
Good Ron vs Bad Ron. Guess who showed up in Miami the other night?
by LeaguePassAddict on
Feb 28, 2008 10:21 AM PST
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True
Fact of the matter remains, we should not have let the Hawks run up as many points like that as they did last night. Granted, they were hittin their open shots. But I'm sure EVERY big man licks his lips when he sees the Kings coming to down. Our 4 and 5 get eatin up down low. Theus just said that our only player with any physicality is Artest. Take a minute and think about how ridiculous that sounds?!?! Thats similar to a coach saying that the only player on the team who can dribble the ball upcourt is our SF, cause our guards can't do it! Unreal!
When our bigs dont play BIG, it breeds inconsistancy!
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 10:31 AM PST
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Don't you think
Agreed we need an upgrade at the 4. That's been the case ALL SEASON LONG. Why are we suddenly, what was your eloquent term, SUCKING?
by LeaguePassAddict on
Feb 28, 2008 11:19 AM PST
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hmmm
Fact of the matter is....Champ! that you don't know sh*t and I highly doubt you have close ties to anyone affiliated with the team. After glancing over your last post once again, it seems as if your basing your entire argument (hung-over/dogging practice) off of an assumption. One that clearly doesnt hold enough evidence to be regarded as a matter of fact! I figured an amateur such as yourself, who attempts to goof on me for using the work "suck", would know better than to do that!
And what hell are you talking about with this great analysis..
"Agreed we need an upgrade at the 4. That's been the case ALL SEASON LONG. Why are we suddenly, what was your eloquent term, SUCKING?..
What does that even mean?!?!? Maybe you can refresh the memories of STR nation. Suddenly sucking???? When was this imaginary period you have in your head when we were good? Sh*t, have we been .500 at any point this season
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 1:00 PM PST
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Shame on you, Hoops
Don't you know this is LynchRonTown Royally?
by coolcatreportdotcom on
Feb 28, 2008 1:30 PM PST
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This type of post
by Kfan in Korea on
Feb 28, 2008 2:13 PM PST
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KingsFan in Korea
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 3:39 PM PST
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The...
Good?
by Ziller on
Feb 28, 2008 3:34 PM PST
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FYI
Thanks for handling that the right way TZ!
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 3:38 PM PST
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No worries
Actually my opinion of Bibby is very similar to my opinion of Artest and Miller for that matter: Thanks for your contributions, but I don't see you as a piece of our future, so the sooner you go, the sooner we can get on with rebuilding.
by Kfan in Korea on
Feb 28, 2008 5:30 PM PST
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Thank you TZ
by 27freethrows on
Feb 29, 2008 3:25 PM PST
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StR
by pookeyguru on
Mar 1, 2008 1:46 AM PST
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And your credentials would be......?
I wasn't aware that I needed an "in" or an NBA credential of some kind to have an opinion.
My basis for saying that suddenly we're sucking is that Miami KILLED us and Atlanta put up three 30+ point quarters on us last night. Our power forward situation hasn't changed in the last couple of weeks, but the way Artest is playing has.
You can attack me all you want, calling me Champ and telling me that I don't know sh*t, but the fact of the matter is that I'm stating an opinion based on what I've read, and said opinion disagrees with what you think, therefore you attack me.
This conversation isn't personal, and I haven't resorted to calling you names or denegrating your posts. But I'm not going to back down on my belief that Artest is bad for the Kings, no matter how many times you and coolcat spew your vitriolic posts all over StR.
For the record, I've never said that Artest isn't a talented guy, because he is. I also believe that he works very hard when he feels like it.
My point is that while others will make "boys will be boys" excuses for Artest's bad behavior, I firmly believe that where much is given, whether it be lucrative contracts or God-given abilities, much should be required.
If you personally want to give Artest a pass for his misdeeds, feel free. Just don't ask me to do the same.
As far as basing my entire argument off of an assumption, that's true. I'm not the only one who's done that, though. Why don't you tell TZ he's full of sh*t, too?
by LeaguePassAddict on
Feb 28, 2008 2:06 PM PST
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Excuse me
by coolcatreportdotcom on
Feb 28, 2008 2:18 PM PST
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Oh for pitty sake
I've never claimed to have a halo, all I ask is that my opinion be respected for what it is--my opinion.
I don't call names, I don't make personal attacks, and I don't use profanity.
by LeaguePassAddict on
Feb 28, 2008 2:41 PM PST
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Just
"But I'm not going to back down on my belief that Artest is bad for the Kings, no matter how many times you and coolcat spew your vitriolic posts all over StR."
What kind of "vitriolic posts" am I posting all over STR. I have traditionally not even been that big of an Artest supporter! (although I am one of the few who thinks it was a good idea to hold onto him). Do your research before you start associating me with any other poster.
And then to make matters worse you drop this gem...
but the fact of the matter is that I'm stating an opinion based on what I've read, and said opinion disagrees with what you think, therefore you attack me."
I never in fact attacked you until you tried to throw your superiority over me by "goofing" on the vocab I used. If I recall, you initially tried to "call me out" earlir for expressing my agreement with Marty McNeal and at the same time thinking the team "sucks"...then you went on and tried to discredit me by saying "what was that elequent word you used, sucking?"
So do all of us a favor and quit the lame accusations. please? I never once said that I am "personally giving Artest a pass" and that I "shouldnt ask you to do the same"? Again, what are you talking about??? Seriously!!!! I never "gave" him a pass so to speak. And I sure as hell never asked you to do the same!
And TZ initiated the conversation by calling that assumption into question. I have not yet read on here that he is taking his earlier assumption to the "bank" and defending it whole heartedly. I tend to call a spade a spade and if I feel a need to confront TZ on an issue rest assure that I will do so. Just as I hope he would do to me. But unlike others (including your behavior earlier today) I don't "jump" on other people's posts for the sake of argument very often. And If I do, (as you jumped on mine earlier) I sure as hell wont write a sappy letter portraying myself as a martyr later on in the day (as you have just done)
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 2:52 PM PST
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I'm sure you mean these things kindly
by LeaguePassAddict on
Feb 28, 2008 9:46 PM PST
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Sticking my nose where it doesn't belong
I'm sure you guys both have better things to do than fight on the Internet. As someone who's gotten pissed at people on the Internet and then later realized the absurdity of it all, I'd take a day or two timeout. Come back later and you'll feel better.
by Carl on
Feb 29, 2008 10:25 AM PST
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Thanks for the pass along Carl
by pookeyguru on
Feb 29, 2008 10:47 AM PST
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Savage
However, I still believe that this is currently the game/risk that GP is playing. Artest is GP's "stock" and he's taking a risk and hoping that it will rise before season's end. He simply wasnt impressed with what we were being offered. (you know, the platter of poop that Denver offered). GP is no dummy, he isnt gonna let another GM pull the wool over his eyes!
GP has a history of being a risk taker (see his selection of J-Dub @ #7 or Peja's pick). This is just another one of his risky decisions. Its what has the makings of a true love/hate relationship
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 8:28 AM PST
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I agree that Ron is stock
But the bigger problem is what Ron can do to the team. In the same way that he can tutor a young guy like Williams to play tough, he can undermine Theus and take this whole team down. I hope I am just being chicken little. Nothing would make me happier than to see the sky turn blue again and have us kick Dallas's butt.
by SavageBeast on
Feb 28, 2008 9:33 AM PST
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Petrie
by 27freethrows on
Feb 29, 2008 3:32 PM PST
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I agree wholehearedly
by SavageBeast on
Feb 29, 2008 4:31 PM PST
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Yep
Marty McNeal is insane if he thinks this team is a player away from contention. This team MIGHT be a (very good) player from fighting for the last playoff spot and losing in the first round every year. YES Marty - I want the Kings to blow it up, go 19-63 and then have a future, just like the Portland Trailblazers do right now.
Geoff Petrie's moves (few as they've been) have just delayed and delayed (and delayed) the inevitable. Unless you have a Kobe Bryant or Lebron James, you CANNOT get better by trimming around the edges of a mediocre team.
by Carl on
Feb 28, 2008 9:05 AM PST
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oh no! the sky is falling!
by Muff209 on
Feb 28, 2008 9:12 AM PST
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I'd be happy
by otis29 on
Feb 28, 2008 9:18 AM PST
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I'm not sure..
Ron Artest, a volatile player who is likely to leave the team this summer (one way or the other), could have been traded last week, when his value was at its peak, for at least a 1st-round pick.
He was not. Since then, this team has put up four atrocious defensive performances, lost to two lottery teams and beat another (with their best player out half the game) by one point in overtime. One of those losses was to the worst team in the league by 21 points. It has come out that Artest had partied the night before, he missed shoot-around due to a hangover, shot 3-14, and screamed at Theus when Theus questioned the team's committment.
You can't really blame Theus, because what's he supposed to do? You can't really blame Artest, because he is who he is.
I don't think Petrie was too proud to take a seemingly lopsided deal. I think he's in a tough position between competitor and disaster with this roster, and he thinks giving up Ron for scraps would push this cart over to full-blown disaster. My analysis over the last few months has disagreed -- this team would be only slightly worse defensively and maybe a touch better offensively minus Ron.
I don't know that you blame anyone. But I think Petrie buys that time machine to see how things could have gone differently. Maybe Sacramento goes 1-3. But this has been about the most unsettling 1-3 I've ever seen.
by Ziller on
Feb 28, 2008 9:34 AM PST
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I get your point TZ
Kevin Martin hasn't been effective lately, he missed a lot of free throws the passed games.
This Ron Artest issue is affecting the integrity of the team.
IMO, maybe we should waive him, It's not like we're going to be in the playoffs and Salmons can start and Garcia will have more minutes as well as Douby, even Williams would see more playing time with Artest waived.
I know his salary still would be counting if he is waived, but Theus will be playing with the core of our future team.
by Kjack on
Feb 28, 2008 10:23 AM PST
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Holy cow
by otis29 on
Feb 28, 2008 10:29 AM PST
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I forgot about Petrie
by Kjack on
Feb 28, 2008 10:40 AM PST
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The Kings would have to buy out next year too.
by jjham15 on
Feb 28, 2008 9:50 PM PST
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What's really bad JJ
by pookeyguru on
Feb 28, 2008 9:55 PM PST
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Who know....
by jjham15 on
Feb 28, 2008 11:27 PM PST
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Sorry man
by pookeyguru on
Feb 28, 2008 11:46 PM PST
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Maybe it's all that rain.
by jjham15 on
Feb 29, 2008 12:12 AM PST
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It's been chippy
Keeping Artest is understandable; just not something I agree with. Those who have advocated HAVE YET to show a worthwhile cause of what Artest does to make this team better. To show how Artest makes this team better (outside of the opinion).
JJ you and I have gotten into it. But at least the arguments we got into had some salient and relevance to it. I fear that the recent chippiness will overtake a quality blog with quality thought. Sniping at each other every day does none of us any good (who am I kidding--I'm the biggest asshole around here).
by pookeyguru on
Feb 29, 2008 12:26 AM PST
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Big difference between heated discussion and...
by jjham15 on
Feb 29, 2008 11:00 AM PST
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BTW
by SavageBeast on
Feb 29, 2008 2:54 PM PST
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TZ
I'm not saying Artest doesn't deserve blame and floggings for his own actions. I do believe such things. What I am saying, and will continue to say as I'm a fan of MAN!!!, is that Petrie deserves to be accountable for holding out for higher value when the chances of such are extremely low (regardless of whether Ron is a choir boy or not).
by pookeyguru on
Feb 28, 2008 12:39 PM PST
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Artest
Couple that with his behavior, and he's just made my argument for me. Artest is bad for this team.
by LeaguePassAddict on
Feb 28, 2008 9:36 AM PST
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Ok,
In All Honesty...
The Kings DO suck. For the sake of future winning, you WANT them to. Pray they lose every game here on out and get a tangible STAR player.
Ron will have bad games/stretches, just as everyone else does. He is not alone going to drag our asses into the playoffs with The Prodigy not being prodigious, seafood at PF, and 'He Who Must Not Be Named'.
Ron's problems right now are lack of help. It's Udrih and him this last week.
Every team goes through what you see in the paper.
Players yell at coaches and vice versa. Reporters hype it to sell papers. the only difference in Sacramento is you guys smoking what they're offering.
Everyone gets South Beach Flu. If I had my way, I would too.
by Psychrates on
Feb 28, 2008 11:49 AM PST
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Yeah my head is so far up my ass
The Kings DO suck. For the sake of future winning, you WANT them to. Pray they lose every game here on out and get a tangible STAR player.
- Play the Kids
- Tank for a Beasley type player
- use the "little" flexibility you get from Ron's contract to avoid luxury tax while building a winner
So why is Ron Artest blaming Reggie Theus for holding him accountable?? The answer is (p-s-y-c-h-o-t-i-c).......
Kevin Martin deserves criticism for how he's played. So does, to an extent, John Salmons. That being said not everybody deserves criticism for losses. It's not on Quincy Douby that they lost in Miami. Douby didn't build the roster (that would be Petrie).
The list of fault in this particular mess is:
- Petrie
- Artest
- Everyone else is caught in the wake one way or another until further reported otherwise
by pookeyguru on
Feb 28, 2008 12:47 PM PST
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True
Seriously, almost every person here who wants to see Ron shipped out acknowledge the fact that he is a great player, and they hope he succeeds on a long-term basis, if he's given a long-term contract. Do you really think people hate Ron-Ron just for being Ron-Ron, and don't want him and the team to succeed?
Problem is, you and coolcat jump in and gloat about Artest every time he has a decent game, quarter, 2-minute stretch, but won't acknowledge the flaws in his game and his character that have made him (an upper echelon player in the league with a palatable contract) untradeable. Weird, isn't it?
I don't mean this to be offensive, but I really can't take anything you or coolcat say seriously from a basketball standpoint any longer. You two may make a salient point occasionally, but it's barely worth the effort to debate anything back and forth.
If you can't see why the possibility of losing Artest for nothing this summer is worse than trading him for something as minimal as a first round draft pick (which normally turns to gold in the hands of one Geoff Petrie), I don't know what else to say.
by otis29 on
Feb 28, 2008 1:45 PM PST
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Wrong again
Read my posts and you will see that I have consistently debated the pros and cons of Ron Artest. I have entertained the thought of him being traded. I have consistently said no King is untouchable.
I rate him in the middle half of the starting small forwards in the league, and I think the Kings would be far worse off with him than without him unless they got a decent player to replace him. The team has three fairly dependable players, and he is one of them.
While I agree he has issues, I don't think he is the Anti-Christ, which seems to put me in the minority here.
It's gotten so ridiculous that I agree with you on one thing: there isn't much take anything on this site that you can take seriously from a basketball standpoint any longer.
Of course, I don't mean this to be offensive in any way.
by coolcatreportdotcom on
Feb 28, 2008 2:13 PM PST
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You're a joke
This seems to be your current talking point for anyone who thinks keeping Artest past the trade deadline was a bad idea. Pros and cons my ass.
I don't think anyone is calling Ron the Anti-Christ either, but people are (rightfully in my opinion) upset about his antics since the trade deadline.
by otis29 on
Feb 28, 2008 2:25 PM PST
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I'm OK with that.
by Psychrates on
Feb 28, 2008 3:14 PM PST
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all this talk about Ron is fine
There's plenty of blame to go around for the poor defense and offense. It takes 5 guys and a lot of bad play to give up 110+ plus to horrible offensive teams.
A side note: Lost in Bibby's excellent game was the fact that Beno too played well.
by Kusian on
Feb 28, 2008 2:54 PM PST
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Nice
I hope Martin turns this little slump of his around. Thats the last thing the Kings need is him to become a head-case (as I believe is what has happened to Salmons)
I agree with you that there is PLENTY of blame to go around regarding our defence. Letting these horrible teams get off scoring that many points is ridiculous.
However, given my previous statement, I still believe the reason for our lack of defence is because of Miller ans Mikki. We must have the "softest" frontcourt in the League by FAR, not even a question in my mind. Hopefully the Landlord can learn the offence and develope into the low-post presence we need him to become next year at the 4. I think that is what GP envisioned when we traded for him last week
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 3:14 PM PST
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Huh?
The fact that Salmons is a head-case seems odd as well. Obviously he isn't playing as well as we have seen and he hasn't been that productive off the bench and he left one meeting in a huff awhile ago, but again with the head-case thing; it seems like a complete over-reaction.
We are an inconsistent team on the rebuild, this sort of thing has been happening the entire season, leading to a rather frustrating experience as a fan. I for one wish Ron the best of luck next year with New York, unless he realizes that the money he is making next year is more then he will receive in the open market, thus leading him not to opt-out... which is amazing considering his talent level.
I understand the perspective that coolcat and hoops have with Ron as he is amazing to watch. However, it is quite ironic that now for whatever reason you guys advocate playing the young players and rebuilding... the very thing you were opposed to by dealing Ron. It was not that StR thought Ron was a bad hoops player or not one of the most skilled two way players in the league far from it. Its just that at this point in time, even at the beginning of the season, we were definitely not a championship calibur team so it was necessary to give the young players time and trade our assets, Bibby and Artest for picks and prospects (something Petrie didn't accomplish Artest).
The reason we needed to get rid of Artest is he is an actual headcase. As much as Artest can help Shelden's game he is hurting it with his actions, arguing with coach, running his own plays, partying so much he misses practice, constantly being a disruption on the team. All these reasons are why you need to get rid of an Artest because no matter how much he contributes on the court he always finds a way to diminish it off the court.
I just don't understand how undermining authority is something Coolcat and Hoops can endorse. If Ron Artest was the leading salesman, engineer, whatever everyday job you choose, and had 1.5 the sales of any other person in the company yet continually disrupted the office, fought with boss, and believed himself exempt to the rules given to the entire company; especially with your office full of new college grads just breaking into the business, you better believe his ass is fired. You do not want his negativity poisoning the entire work operation just for a couple more sales. Now imagine this is the NBA and those extra 'sales' Ron provide are actually hurting your effort to rebuild, that is why I am dismayed by Petrie's decision. Because getting rid of him was the only sensible solution at this point.
by moproblemz on
Feb 28, 2008 4:02 PM PST
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c'mon man
Before I respond to your posts, let me first say that there is a BIG difference in my opinion between keeping Artest (because you got offered junk for him) and actually endorsing his behavior. Regardless of how anyone feels about him, there is no doubt that he is one of the most talented players in the L, an enigma of sorts if you will. And with that, I agree with GP's decision to wait it out until the end of the year and see what the Kings can get out of it at the end of the year. GP is not gonna be taken advantage of, which in my opinion is what Denver was trying to do (sans Kleiza of course)
Onto your post. You raised some interesting points! First off, I used the word "head-case" somewhat loosely. I would disagree with you that Martin is "just" in a shooting/scoring slump. He seems to be lacking the urgency that franchise players need/are obligated to have. I like the guy alot but in order for him to earn that cash were commiting to him, he's gonna have to be more assertive. When your the man on a team, you can't just dissapear for an extended period of time, which is what it seems to me like he's doing. the thing that leaves me to believ that his recent slump MAY be somewhat mental is his numbers from the charity stripe. FT's aern't correlated with "shooting slumps". In fact, players use the charity stripe to break "out" of slumps. FT's are simple muscle memory, for as Great (I dont use that word lightly) as a FT shooter as he is there is an odd feeling to his FT numbers right now. However, I just raised the issue in my previous post, I sure didnt mean to put it "in stone". I'm optimistic he'll rebound and start playing better ball soon!
I do, however, feel that Salmons is a bit of a head-case. There is NO excuse for his lack of production (I'm not solely talking about #'s) when Artest jumped back into the lineup. Yeah, he may have lost his attempts and a few minutes off his minutes per game, but the way in which he is playing ball seems to have completely transformed. And you know he reads the papers, he has to have seen Amick and Howard Stern (opps, i mean Voisen) write about him as well. He's one of my favorite players on the squad, but he seems to be tentative when Artest is out there
And I never endorsed Artest undermining the authority. I invite you to scroll back and re-read my previous statements!
by Hoops916 on
Feb 28, 2008 4:36 PM PST
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If I take head-case to mean loss of confidence
That being said, pulling him late in the game because he's having shooting issues can't help his confidence.
Regarding Salmons, I don't know what to make of his production. We should have just traded him when KMart came back, and his stock was as high as it ever will be.
by Kfan in Korea on
Feb 28, 2008 5:51 PM PST
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Very good point
There's 240 minutes to split up, and the most one guy can take up in a regulation game is 48. Bagging on one guy is just plain stupid, particularly in the context of a 1-3 road trip that could have been 2-2 with a few more hoops against Hotlanta.
by coolcatreportdotcom on
Feb 28, 2008 3:37 PM PST
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Well coolcat
by pookeyguru on
Feb 28, 2008 9:25 PM PST
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If you needed
by coolcatreportdotcom on
Feb 28, 2008 11:56 PM PST
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Hmmm
by pookeyguru on
Feb 29, 2008 12:00 AM PST
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Just Like Players
by coolcatreportdotcom on
Feb 29, 2008 12:47 AM PST
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NO thanks
by pookeyguru on
Feb 29, 2008 1:56 AM PST
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Nah when I get enough of those
by pookeyguru on
Feb 29, 2008 2:04 AM PST
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thanks TZ
by franfran on
Feb 28, 2008 10:46 PM PST
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This is how bad we are...
by maiku on
Feb 29, 2008 1:29 AM PST
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On the beach here in Costa Rica
YIKES!
I`m going back down to the beach.
by section214 on
Mar 2, 2008 1:16 PM PST
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Don't came back until June
by pookeyguru on
Mar 2, 2008 2:12 PM PST
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