Bucher: "Mumble Mumble Ron Artest Mumble Mumble Golden State Warriors"

by Ziller on Feb 6, 2008 2:49 PM PST in Free Agency/Trades Comment 50 comments

It's been mentioned in the comments to the footnotes thread and battered around the email tubes a bit, but I've finally come across a transcript of Ric Bucher's ESPN radio discussion of a Ron Artest to Golden State rumor, thanks to Golden State of Mind.

There was some weird rumor floating out there that the Warriors would make a run at Ron Artest. What was proposed out there doesn't work as far as numbers are concerned, but that's another team. The Warriors are another team that I could see going for broke and signing Chris Webber wouldn't be the end of it.

Golden State's in a crazy position with remarkably few salary dollars tied up next year. Chris Mullin's strategy this past summer was to provide maximum flexibility for next summer, when Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins are due extensions. If Golden State wants Artest, they have plenty of expiring contracts to do it. And yes, many indications -- from Mullin and Don Nelson's eternal compliments on Ron, to dude's friendships with Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington -- confirm Golden State would want Ron.

The question is how much talent they'd be willing to give up, and how much talent Geoff Petrie'd hold out for. Imagine a Nellie lineup with Artest.

Davis/Jackson/Artest/Webber/Biedrins
--or--
Davis/Ellis/Jackson/Artest/Webber
--or--
Davis/Jackson/Artest/Harrington/Webber

Those all look like Nellieball lineups. Both Biedrins and Ellis seem less vital than in current incarnations.

Mullin has repeatedly seemed to indicate Biedrins will go nowhere; some murmured Andris as the tripping point in any Kevin Garnett (I don't buy this). At any rate, yanking Biedrins seems impossible.

...

I think you see where I'm going with this. Likely? No. Possible? Yes.

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The Sky is Falling Down

The NBA is going crazy. One more high-profile trade and espn is going to blow its collective zit off the face of the planet.

by iashwash on Feb 6, 2008 2:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

That's classic

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 6, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There might be rioting

If the Warriors traded Ellis away.

But reuniting Artest and Jackson in the Oakland area sounds pretty fun.

And when does Bucher find time to worry about Warrior trades? Did Kobe give him the day off from lawnmowing/carwashing duties?

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Feb 6, 2008 2:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Bonus free time

for an extra-special job well-done.

by iashwash on Feb 6, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is classic too

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 6, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Try this....

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3019~2173~3242~25&teams=23~23~23~9& ;te=&cash=

Kings get the first round pick they wanted last year and the Warriors get their man. I think the long term prognoses on Wright is good, he was nothing more than a chip in a trade to free up cap space and Nelson won't play him. I would love to get Biedrins or Ellis but I don't see it.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 6, 2008 3:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Boston started this frenzy

I must admit, NBA is fun to watch nowadays because it's like watching an all-star game with all the high marquee names in one team. Bibby and Artest would surely be involved in trade talks in the next few days.

As for Golden State, I don't think their fans would want to give up Biedrins or Monta. I also think that we don't need Monta. Brendan Wright, however, is someone I would love to have alongside Hawes

by kingme on Feb 6, 2008 3:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

trade exception

Guys, this seems more possible:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=&teams=&te=25:9-1018&cash=

by Z3nBall3r on Feb 6, 2008 3:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

No

I think Petrie's been holding out for more than pure cap relief, especially with Artest. And that'd cause Cohan to pay luxury tax.

by Ziller on Feb 6, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

K9

I think all he wants is cap relief, but to be more realistic, that SHOULD include K9 in any trade.

by Z3nBall3r on Feb 6, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Question:

Can one use a trade exception and a player together as trade-bait?

I've googled the sucker, can't find the answer.

by iashwash on Feb 6, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

picks

Yes I think so. If not a player, then some picks for sure.

by Z3nBall3r on Feb 6, 2008 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You can only trade for players up

to what that trade exception is worth. So if you have a 10 million trade exception (which is what GS has from the J-Rich deal) you can only trade for 10 million of players. If you add another players you would have to add 10 million PLUS more salary to make the numbers work under the salary cap. If you're trading a guy worth 3 million along with a 10 million exception you have to be willing to take a trade equivalent of players up to 13 million dollars. (Why are these explanations are so long winded. Oui)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 6, 2008 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And,

One can't split trade exceptions, correct? So that 10 million can't be used 5 million to one team, another 5 million plus a rookie to another team.

Interesting, I wonder who thought of the development of trade exceptions. A read on the history of the NBA salary cap would actually be quite interesting. The wikipedia article covers some basic facts, but doesn't go into quite the necessary detail. If I find something better, I'll let everyone know.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Feb 6, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

some semi-offical information

stolen from a cavaliers blog, which looks alot like some of the nba.com stuff wikipedia links to, whatever that means.

Traded Player Exception: The Traded Player Exception allows a team, who trades away a player with a higher salary than the player they get in return, to receive a "Trade Exception." The team then has a year to acquire more salary via other trades, however those trades must be less than or equal to the difference in the salary that was made during the first trade.

This exception is good in various cases, one being when a team does a sign and trade with one of their free agents. This will allow the team, who loses a free agent, to recieve a trade exception that can be used at a later date.

This exception is for single player trades only, though additional cash and draft picks can be part of the trade.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Feb 6, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't rely on Wiki

Use Larry Coon or Dan Rosenbaum to navigate this territory.

As far as splitting it up they CAN do that. What they can't do is trade for multiple players from one team and include their own without making the numbers match under the salary cap. Examples are needed so here goes:

10 million exception + Brandan Wright = Ron Artest and Brandan Wright? I tried it once and said it failed because the exception wasn't counted. But otherwise yes I think that could work as I structured it regardless of what the trade machine says. The bigger obstacle does GS try to go for broke on this type of deal? If they say yes then you could see this being a major feather in the cap of Petrie's.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 7, 2008 12:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like

both TZ's and jjham's deals. Satori, if we don't get anything back for Ron then why not just keep him until he opts out at the end of the year?

Now, maybe take your deal and merge it with either TZ's or jjham's deal and throw K9(woof!) in and...ooh...I almost passed out there for a minute...hyperventilating...Ron and K9(woof!) gone...cheap young talent coming back in return...must...lie...down...

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 6, 2008 3:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Lol

I thought I was going to be the second guy to post a comment on this thread. It seems a lot of you guys are online today. Is it just me or this season (the NBA in general) is really fun? Amazing!

by kingme on Feb 6, 2008 3:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

typo

is this season (the NBA in general) really fun?

by kingme on Feb 6, 2008 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Any Chance?

Petrie is trying to jump in to the Dallas counter-offer?

I had never felt hate until 2002

by CAB on Feb 6, 2008 3:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Nevermind

Sacbee.com is reporting at 3:29 that the Shaq trade is now official.

I had never felt hate until 2002

by CAB on Feb 6, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

pob, pietrus

I can see POB, Pietrus coming and some picks. I don't think they'll sacrifice any of their core players. We'll see..

by Z3nBall3r on Feb 6, 2008 3:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Question

In either of the proposed deals above:

Who would you want to resign?
Would you have the money to do it?

Or, do you just want to rent those guys for the rest of the year and then them all expire?

Seems like I have been getting lectured all day about "reality," but that seems to have been waived in this discussion.

I'd really like to get Biedrins in any deal with the Warriors, and naturally if we could make Kenny Thomas go away that would be the icing on the cake.

I think it was Wright that I saw for a couple of minutes recently and he looked pretty good. I don't know much at all about O'Bryant. Pietrus has had his moments, but he also shot them out of the playoffs last season from the free throw line. I'm not sure where he would fit in for the Kings.

I don't think the Warriors are going to throw in Ellis in any case.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 6, 2008 3:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I doubt they'll include Ellis as well. Wright's a stronger possibility.

by Ziller on Feb 6, 2008 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't it Just Martin vs. Ellis

being mentioned in the same breath on these boards?

Ellis is a key cog in that wheel and a rising star. Unless they don't want to be around when his payday comes due, but this is the new win-it-this-year-or-else NBA, so they can deal with that problem later.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 6, 2008 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Any deal that includes Brandan Wright

is totally fine by me.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 6, 2008 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Try this

JJ, what was that you were saying about someone being "a fanatical trade machine junkie?" Looks like you are right at home with that machine as well ...

I guess it's do as I say, not as I do time, right?

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 6, 2008 4:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I will be nice.

The trade that I have posted works as a legitimate trade idea. It involves a 2007 first round pick and two expiring contracts for Ron Artest. It is reasonable and fair for both teams involved. It does not require the Kings to down grade talent and accept an additional 20 million in salary at the same time. It does not involve 4 teams and T-Mac wearing purple and black.

It is a legitimate trade idea.
It is a legitimate trade idea.
It is a legitimate trade idea.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 6, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm waving my sonic finger @ you JJ

You sound like me with equal trade value doesn't exist. The sickness gets to you doesn't it?

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 6, 2008 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Legitimate Trade Ideas and The State of the Kings

As always, they are legitimate in the eyes of the beholder.

That TMac "trade" was one of my first efforts on the Trade Machine, and even I concluded in the end it wouldn't work. It was posted to generate discussion, and I'd say it fulfilled that mission.

I think the Calderon trade idea was also a longshot and I posted the pros and cons to it, including the reality of it occuring. Toronto has an extra point guard, so they were picking up two starters (Miller, Artest) in exchange for one (Bargnani) and a co-starter (Calderon) now that Ford was back. I even threw in Udrih so they had a decent backup for Ford.

I also think what I threw out regarding a trade with Orlando was worth a shot. It addressed Orlando's main weakness at point guard and gave us expiring contracts in return for Bibby.

I could have taken shots at your weak efforts for a Bulls trade (yeah, they are really a prime destination for Artest), but I refrained. You, on the other hand, load up a cheap shot every time you get a chance.

I have hemmed and hawed, back and forth, regarding the team's chances for this season and the merits of moving the main players and entering full rebuilding mode. As I threw out in a pair of recent diaries, everything had to go right for a playoff spot to be a possibility this season. We've now fallen behind the ambitious 45-win upside target those pieces laid out, and it also appears that even 45 wins isn't going to cut it in the West this year.

My conclusion at the end of that Jan. 19 post:
"If the Kings go on a serious run here, it's going to be hard to break up the team before the deadline. But if the Kings are not at .500 by Feb. 6, Petrie will probably accelerate the rebuild and ship Bibby or Artest or both."

Well, we're here, and they're not. With the acceleration of the arms race in the West, we probably don't have the luxury of worrying how the upcoming matchups with teams ahead of us(Utah, Golden State, Houston) will go. It's time to move our key chips and get some prospects, picks and expiring contracts.

This has been a difficult season. When we have had our full roster together, we've played .600 ball or better. Theus has done an outstanding job keeping his finger in the dike.

Going forward, I really don't think anyone on this roster is untouchable. Even Martin, although he would have to be traded for a player like Ellis who also isn't on the books for much this season. I don't see Salmons or Francisco or Udrih as key building blocks for the future. For some reason, I like Hawes and look forward to seeing more of him on the court going forward.

The team intrigues me, whether Artest or Dahntay Jones is on the floor. They all have their positives and their flaws, and it plays out every night they take the floor. Sometimes it's pretty and inspires hope; other times, like last night, it makes you grab the remote, hit the clicker button and conclude there's more important things in life than worrying about the Kings. But, in any case, their continuing saga is a nice diversion, and I will support all the players -- yes, even Ron -- through their ups and down.

Petrie is on the clock, and I hope he's up to the challenge. His record in recent years is mixed, and hopefully he'll return to his earlier form that brought the team to the precipice of greatness.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 7, 2008 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Screw It

Just give me the whole non-starting Warriors roster.

Yeah, I know this wouldn't work, but at least it puts the other players from the Warriors who could be pieces of a potential deal on the board for us to gander at.

You just about have to have all these guys included to off Kenny on them, or you start getting into their core.

You could lop off some of these guys and throw in Shareef, though, and it could still work.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 6, 2008 4:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Remember -

The Warriors could use their trade exception to take care of about half of that deal, so they would not have to trade their entire roster.

Again, jjham, tip of the hat. Very interesting.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 6, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's how my trade scenario

at the bottom works out for Sacto. Truthfully I would kiss Petrie if he could pull off that trade. Regardless of how much the Kings don't need Pietrus or O'Bryant in all probability. It works! (And Wright, plus dumping Thomas, has net value for this team everywhere.)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 7, 2008 12:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

please

I would love to get Wright

by joeytothelimit on Feb 6, 2008 4:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Beidrins is ideal

I know its unlikely, but find a way to get it done!

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Feb 6, 2008 5:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

Biedrins would be nice.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 6, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I almost crashed my car

Either I'm stoned already without smoking, or I heard on the radio that there's some sort of House Party Live co-host audition thing at Fats Grill and Bar in Stockton. Which is awesome for a multitude of reasons, including the fact that that's one of my regular bars, and when I worked right next door to that place, I usually had to tell them when Kings games were on and what channel. Although I can't find anything about it on Kings.com. I hope Kayte will be there.

Muff rules. http://vegaskings.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Feb 6, 2008 8:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Damn, I knew I should have researched that more

Apparently they did this last year, and it was with Slamson and Huge Mike. So damn, but hey, still worth a shot. Plus it's a good excuse to get drunk.

Muff rules. http://vegaskings.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Feb 6, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Trade question by Warriors fan

Hey, do you guys think it'd be enough if we just took on Shareef's contract in exchange for Artest? It looks like this

If that's not enough what if we throw in our first round pick?

by gsw4life on Feb 6, 2008 10:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'd do it

But that's assuming GS is willing to waive Reef's physical because he's inactive after surgery. And I definitely would do it no problem with a 1st round pick in the equation.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 6, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Instead of a future pick....

...this trade would also work. I think Wright will be a better player than the Warriors next years pick and as a Kings fan I would hope to get something for Artest. We have all glossed over the fact that Pietrus would have to sign off on any deal.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3019~2173~3242~3~3000&teams=23~23~23~9 ~9&te=25:9-1018&cash=

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 6, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pietrus could end up being waived

That could factor into this too. I don't know what would happen, but your point stands. And I agree about Brandon Wright holding alot of value to the Kings. Even more than Biedrins in many ways.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 6, 2008 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Douby could be a nice fit for the Warriors

I am sure Don Nelson wouldn't mind having another uptempo gunner coming off the bench. They may be reluctant to deal Wright, but they aren't using him anyway. Biedrins is a core player so they probably aren't going to let him go.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 7, 2008 8:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ya

You're right, Wright will definitely be better than our next years pick. I don't think the Warriors both take on Shareef's contract and give up Wright. I think they would do one or the other, and honestly I'm not really sure which one they would prefer, because they've been trying so hard to avoid bad contracts recently.

As for Pietrus, he's clearly unhappy with his minutes and has said as much, so he'd welcome a trade to any team where he could get more pt with open arms.

by gsw4life on Feb 7, 2008 9:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

okay cool

I think the Warriors have been trying to avoid the luxury tax, but with the Western Conference arms race going on hopefully they change their minds and make a deal like this.

by gsw4life on Feb 7, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

TZ no pissing in cornflakes

But I don't know if you can trade for a waived player can you? You can't just trade the salary slot I don't think. Other than I like the idea.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 6, 2008 10:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

This is my dream version of the trade

It's right here. The Kings get rid of Thomas and get Wright & O'Bryant. I can dig it! I can dig it! It works & everything baby! Yes sir! Yes friggin sir!

Now the tricky part comes in. Hoopshype still lists Jasikevicius on the cap. Of course Foyle still is on the cap also as he got bought out. So my question is what is the exact cap number for the Warriors? If it's closer to 59 million they can trade for Artest & Thomas without going over the luxury tax. If they are closer to 68 million then doing this deal will be very hard to pull off unless Chris Mullin & Don Nelson convince him it makes the Warriors a whole lot better. My hope is they do regardless of what the exact number. Pietrus O'Bryant and Wright would be an extreme coup for the Kings in exchange for Artest & Thomas. An extreme COUP!

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 7, 2008 12:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Let me clarify this

If they are closer to 68 million then doing this deal will be very hard to pull off unless Chris Mullin & Don Nelson convince him it makes the Warriors a whole lot better.

"Him" is Chris Cohan, the chairman of the board (majority owner) for the Warriors. I've been so excited contemplating this I didn't even fully pay attention to what I was typing. (I probably would wet myself if Petrie pulled that off as sad as that is.)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 7, 2008 12:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Too bad

Jasikevicius isn't still with the Warriors. He's a piece I'd like to get.

The piece I read http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3029511
said that GS waived him, but it didn't mention any kind of contract buy-out, so, yeah, he's probably still on the books.

Stay dry, PG

Ron Artest: A legend in his own mind.

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 7, 2008 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

trade

Like I said above, I don't see us taking on a bad contract AND giving up Wright. One or the other. At least I hope so... Chris Mullin the GM has been quite a risk taker so if his choices are to take a deal like this or nothing perhaps he might bite, who knows.
Foyle and Jasikevicius are still on our books for whatever their respective buy-out agreements were. FWIW Foyle gave us a more generous buy-out than normal.

by gsw4life on Feb 7, 2008 9:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs